Welcome to the continuation of Oprah Online's ChildAlert auditorium series.
We are glad that you share our concern for our children's future and the
belief that one person can save a child and that child can change the world.
ChildAlert is a series of documentaries aimed to help us understand and
confront the crises facing children.

Tonight we are joined by Arnie Langberg, director of Minds Unlimited.
Langberg has spent 40 years in public education as a high school math teacher
and principal.  Currently, with Minds Unlimited, he serves as a consultant to
public schools, working to develop dialogue on issues of character before
kids become overly involved in self-destructive, anti-social behavior.

The presence of gangs in today's schools along with metal detectors and
security personnel are a reality for many of today's youth.  How can we reach
these kids early to intervene in the potential damage that these new
environments and circumstances present to our children?  These are issues of
concern for all of us, and Arnie Langberg offers some powerful solutions.

Langberg is featured in the first ChildAlert hour, "Children and Guns."  The
focus of that program was not whether or not to own a gun, but the efforts we
can make to childproof these weapons and train individuals to be responsible
owners.  Langberg's 40 years experience in public education gives us first
hand knowledge of the escalation of guns in schools.

Welcome Arnie Langberg!

Question:        How do we reach these kids?  How should we approach them?
It seems so difficult to get into their heads.
Arnie Langberg:     One of the things is that you have to think of them as
human beings.  Sometimes we think of kids as an alien species.  If we treat
them with respect then there is a chance we can reach them.  So, it's not
like there is a magic to it, it's essentially treat them the way you would
like to be treated.  There are differences in the environments that they've
grown up in compared to ours.  Two of them are:  the access to guns, which we
didn't have as far as I know, and the influence of the many hours they spend
watching television.  But basically they are still kids.  If we remember
that, we won't be afraid of them and we won't be surprised when they do
things that are kind of crazy, because we did when we were kids!  It's the
availability of guns that makes some of their mistakes difficult to erase.

Question:        I'm sure all generations say this about their kids, but it
really seems hard to break through to the "inner side" of kids today.
Arnie Langberg:     I want to suggest two or three things that help get into
the inner side of anybody, not just kids.  One of these is physical
challenges - like Outward Bound.  A second is service - giving to someone who
is worse off than you.  Third is creativity - cerate something that comes
from your feeling inside; a painting, a song, something that is an expression
of who you are as a human being.  One of the characteristics that seems to
describe too many of the kids nowadays is that they are empty.  That they
don't believe that they have anything inside. They look outside for miracle
solutions.  I think TV is one of the contributors to this.  All three of the
suggestions I made, physical challenge, service, and creativity, necessitate
them to bring that inside, out.  I have seen kids as far gone as any human
beings I have ever seen, come alive under one of these ideas.  We need to
take on the issue of empty kids.  But we don't fill them up, we provide
environments for them to find out the inner resources they already possess.

Question:        How are they trying to prevent gang activity across America?
Arnie Langberg:     I can't speak for all across America but I would imagine
that the most successful programs are the ones that understand what needs are
met by belonging to a gang and then trying to find alternative ways to meet
those needs.  The number one need probably every human being has, is a need
to be needed, a need to belong.  For many kids, the gang is the only thing
that satisfies that need.  Therefore, we must create alternative ways for
kids to find a positive sense of belonging.  I believe each community must
find its own means.  Part of the problem is that community doesn't really
exist for too many people today.  Gangs have become these kids' community.

Question:        Arnie.  May I call you Arnie?  Do we have to worry about
young teenage adults who are quiet?
Arnie Langberg:     I am going mention ADD as part of my answer as an example
of dealing with "quiet kids."  I see many kids who have been diagnosed ADD
who, when they get involved in something they are interested in, you can't
get them away!  They won't eat, they won't sleep!  Their deficit is for
attention to our curriculum, not to their own.  So, a teacher or a parent
gets upset with a kid with ADD and quite often is happy with a kid who is
interested in nothing because he/she doesn't make trouble for us.  With the
quiet kid, I wouldn't so much worry, as try to find what kinds of interests
engage that kid.  Extreme behavior of any sort in some ways is a cry for
help.  The help, quite often, is for an adult who will care for that kid, who
will listen to that kid.

Question:        How can we train kids to resolve conflicts without resorting
to violence?
Arnie Langberg:     I believe we must begin when they are young, before they
have entered gangs.  In many cases, they have learned violence either in the
home or the streets or from television.  TV, not only meaning the network
shows, but games like Nintendo, SEGA, etc.  The younger we can get them to
consider alternatives to violence, the more likely they will follow that
behavior.  A project I am working on which we call "Education for Moral
Courage" engages third and fourth graders in dialogue on these issues.  It
does not attempt to sermonize, it does not say, "Your parents were wrong when
they told you to stand up and fight," it just tries to make them aware of
other alternatives.

Question:        How are you dealing with values??
Arnie Langberg:     I've been pleasantly surprised at the openness in schools
to take on the issue of values.  I believe that is because we have seen the
results of the values-vacuum that has been created by our fear of taking this
on.  There are values that are inherent in every religion which are
fundamental to being a human being.  I have not found anyone who disputes the
importance of caring  - caring for yourself and for others.  The same is true
of determination, of reliability and trust, of flexibility and idealism and
hope.  Those have been the values that we have been exploring as part of the
Moral Courage project.

Question:        How do we revive inner city communities?
Arnie Langberg:     I'm not sure who the "we" is, but the whole notion of
community is essential in dealing with the issues of youth violence.  It
probably doesn't take more than a few people in the neighborhood to begin to
create a sense of community, but if we wait for the other guy to do it, or
some outside agency to do it, it won't happen.  There are networks throughout
the country that have started to connect emerging communities so they can
share their successes.  If anybody is interested in finding out more about
them they can write to me.  The address will be at the end of this
transcript.

Question:        How can we help the "curriculum makers" adjust to this?  ADD
seems to be the over diagnosis of the year.
Arnie Langberg:     I agree with the over-diagnosis, but the curriculum
makers are not where the problem is.  I think the problem is within the
personal responsibility of the teachers and kids.  As long as we have
externally imposed curriculum, much of it will not matter to most kids.
Curriculum alone changes very little, if as soon as you walk out of the
classroom the ideas are violated.  For example, if we have a discussion of
caring, and then in the halls or bathrooms, or the front office or
playground, you are not cared for, we know that the curriculum was phony.
What we are doing in the Moral Courage project is training the teachers as
ethnographers so that they can transform the culture of the school to be
consistent with the precepts that they teach in the classroom.  We are also
trying to help the parents and the neighbors of the school to be a part of
this attempt to create a common culture.  Without this, the curriculum is
hollow.

Question:        My 10 year old daughter goes to a school where two SECOND
graders were EXPELLED last year.  Can you think of any excuse for this?   I
think lots of teachers and administrators are a lot of the problem with
schools.
Arnie Langberg:     I think this is part of the zero tolerance issue.  I
don't believe that the intention was to remove judgment from the adults in
the school, but occasionally the adults seem to want someone to remove the
responsibility from them.  There may be situation in which a 2nd grader is in
fact a clear and present danger to the rest of the school, but I would guess
that this is very rare and that some of the expulsions were obeying the
letter of the law, rather than its spirit.  Zero tolerance is the beginning
of an answer, it's part of the answer, but definitely not the complete
answer.

Question:        Arnie - education for moral courage.  Is that a special
curriculum?
Arnie Langberg:     Curriculum is only one part of it and if in fact people
only look at the curriculum they will miss the most important part.  It is a
combination of engaging kids in dialogue which respects their ability to
think and express their thoughts.  And to have that happen within the context
of a supportive school culture, and as far as possible, a supportive
community culture.  It is not a teacher-proof curriculum that is the panacea.
It is also a long-term commitment.

Question:        When do we make kids and their parents take responsibility
for their actions and stop blaming t.v. or games?
Arnie Langberg:     You can't make anybody do anything.  What you can do is
live the example yourself and offer alternatives and then people must choose
how to live their own lives.

Question:        This program aimed at 4th and 5th graders, has it been
tested on a target group?
Arnie Langberg:     We began last year with 3rd graders.  We involved every
3rd grader in an inner-city school that is approximately 85% children of
color, most of them who are on free or reduced lunch.  We offered it to six
different schools and this is the school that was most aggressive about
becoming involved in the program. The external evaluation of the first year
exceeded my expectations and we have now expanded it to include 3rd and 4th
graders.  We have resisted expanding it to other schools because we have seen
some franchising kill good programs and we would prefer to have at least one
more year of experience before we contemplate replication.

Question:        How many of these successes deal directly with the family?
Arnie Langberg:     It is still too early to tell because my approach, based
on working in schools for 36 years, was to try not to intrude too much on the
existing school culture.  So, for the first year we tried to involve parents
through activities that the school had already setup for them.  This appeared
to have limited success.  Now in our second year we have expanded our
attempts to involve families.  The changing school culture has involved more
teachers and they have involved more parents, rather than I doing it.  In
fact, the major push this year is to help it become the schools project,
rather than mine.

Question:        How do you combat apathy?  For example, when it comes to
open houses, usually the parents who show up are the ones who's kids are
doing great.  I even try to call parents with good news and still I do not
get responses.
Arnie Langberg:     It is more difficult for me to answer that as an
outsider, but I can tell you how we did it when I was the principal of an
alternative inner-city school. We told the parents that we would initiate
contact with them every three weeks for the first semester.  A phone call
after three weeks, a letter after six, and a face to face conference after
nine, at a sight convenient to the parent.  We repeated this cycle for the
next nine weeks, except that the second conference was at the school.  What
happened was that the initial contact was very positive after three weeks and
many parents didn't believe it.  The school was actually calling them to tell
them their kid was a good kid.  The result was because we reached out for a
semester, it made it easier for them to reach out to us.


Thank you for joining us tonight to continue the dialogue from ChildAlert:
Children and Guns.  We hope you share our concern for our children and will
help us to urge gun manufacturers to childproof the weapons they produce.
Letters, ready to send can be found under our "Helpline" area.  Look for the
ChildAlert Icon.  Please get involved.

The Oprah Winfrey Show is working with more than 270 police departments, who
have agreed to be gun drop-off centers in their respective communities.  All
firearms that are collected will be destroyed regardless of their value.
Anyone needing more information can call (900) 370-1414.   You will be
charged for your call, however, the proceeds from these calls are not for
profit.

Thanks again to Arnie Langberg for joining us this evening.  The email
address for Minds Unlimited is: Arnold Langberg@together.org.   Or you can
write to them at: 5376 South High Road, Evergreen, CO, 80439.  Please stay
tuned to the Oprah Online ChildAlert area for our weekly auditoriums on the
issues affecting our children's lives.  Thanks for your time and concern.
Goodnight from Harpo!